Why Brunswick Lab certs can't be checked out.

[SGM123]

Hi,

While some supplement companies are honest about their products some will hype and deceptively claim ORAC certification from Brunswick Labs when
no ORAC certifications exist. It would be good if supplement companies posted online their actual Brunswick certificates and its ORAC information.
Otherwise their claims are questionable. To further compound this situation Brunswick Labs, owing to their confidentiality rules, will not answer questions
about a supplement companies ORAC certifications or claims.

Here is a letter from Brunswick Labs explaining their position.

http://brunswicklabs.com/apology_letter.shtml


Http://www.emoclear.com

[healthopotamus]

To be honest I do not see what all the hype is over ORAC scores.It's only an in-vitro assy & tells absolutely nothing about in-vivo activity.If I was a consumer I don't think I could care less about the ORAC Lab Cert- what does interest me is the safety & efficacy of the product.Fake ORAC scores- who cares- just show me the results from properly controlled human clinical trials using the product!
In fact a very high ORAC score could be a cause for concern, since it is known that excessive antioxidant intake can cause these high ORAC compounds to become pro-oxidants.

[SGM123]

Hi Healthopotamus:

ORAC scales are an important first step in finding out about the antioxidant content of common foods. The testing of in-vivo antioxidant activity is very important too so we know how these antioxidants operate in people. Some antioxidants and antioxidant supplements are not bioavailable or they breakdown too soon
in the human body to be of any value.

Numerous consumers would be concerned about the veracity of a supplement manufacturer who faked their ORAC certification and ORAC scores. For many it would tell potential customers a company's claims are not to be trusted. Whatever a company may claim about safety, efficacy, and contents would likely fall into question for those who experienced a company falsify it's ORAC certs, data, or any other selling points. Brand trust is a very important element in selling a product. Consider what prospective auto buyers would think of a car dealership that sold cars with turned back odometers and falsified documentation. Few people want to get stuck.

Not a whole lot of antioxidant supplements are rigorously tested. How many have accrediting seals and testing approval for even their contents?

You have pointed out an important question about antioxidant supplements: "What properly controlled human clinical trials using actual products have been performed?" Certainly very few according to peer reviewed journals. The consumer takes a risk with untested antioxidant supplements. He or she may have a better shot with antioxidant foods. Many have thousands of years of human experience behind them. At least we know sailors didn't get scurvy after eating limes.

"In fact a very high ORAC score could be a cause for concern, since it is known that excessive antioxidant intake can cause these high ORAC compounds to become pro-oxidants." Healthopotamus

This is important to know and something I mentioned in these forums previously, especially for those persons who believe "more is better". How many antioxidants, of differing varieties, can persons consume before they pass the pro-oxidant threshold? At present it's held by a number nutritional scientests
that the average active human being only requires between 5000 and 6000 on the ORAC antioxidant scale per day to operate optimally. But how many antioxidants does it take to pass over the threshold from antioxidant to pro-oxidant? Each specific antioxidant may have it's own pro-oxidant threshold.

Http://www.emoclear.com

[spartak]

I think that not all antioxidants can act as pro oxidants. There are a few who can act quite often (like naringenin) for reasons not very clearly understood.

I am not sure it is a matter of quantity only. I believe it has to do with the source that these antioxidants are taken also.

I would trust fruits and veggies that give me 10.000 orac per day instead of taking one pill (or more) that gives me the same orac score.

[SGM123]

Hi Sparktak:

"I think that not all antioxidants can act as pro oxidants. There are a few who can act quite often (like naringenin) for reasons not very clearly understood." Spartak

Antioxidants are not a throughly explored area. There's much for scientific study. Many antioxidants were not even recognized or named until the last 20 years.

"I am not sure it is a matter of quantity only. I believe it has to do with the source that these antioxidants are taken also." Spartak

Could be a number of factors besides overly large quantities. Some metals may turn antioxidants on the pro-oxidant path.

"I would trust fruits and veggies that give me 10.000 orac per day instead of taking one pill (or more) that gives me the same orac score."spartak

I would also go with fruits, veggies, nuts, and spices for the major sources of wide spectrum antioxidants. We can count on these foods to provide plenty
antioxidants. Some superfoods could put us well over our ORAC requirements currently thought to be about 5000 to 6000 ORAC. Look at some of the ORAC Values lists of foods. A Red Delicious apple and a cup of natural cocoa would put us well over the line. Plus fruits, veggies, nuts, and spices provide valuable fiber, minerals, and teeth and gum exercise. I don't see the need for many supplements. D3 and maybe a few others.

Http://www.emoclear.com

[barryy]

We had our product (Vindure 900) tested by Brunswick Labs, and each tablet came in at 19,638. This is the highest one-per-day rating I know of for any supplement. Our Brunswick report is posted on the site, along with our Supplement Facts label. As a general rule, I assume that any company that does NOT post their legally required product label is hiding something.

In addition to an extraordinarily high antioxidant capacity, Resveratrol and Quercetin have been shown to activate the SIRT genes, and up-regulate sirtuins in the bloodstream, potentially increasing our healthy years. Take a look at the antioxidant page at http://www.vinomis.com

[SGM123]

Hi all,

Resveratrol advertising is starting to swamp acai and winning the bs war. This thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comment ... upplement/
raises some questions about Resveratrol bioavaliabity, whether it has any value for non mice, and now new allegations that Resveratrol causes achilles tendon tears.

If dark purple grape juice or some pinot noir isn't enough for you and your quest for antioxidant overdosing lusts for burning holes in your wallet, then check out prices for capsules containing copius amounts of resveratrol for far lower
prices than super "proprietary" blends" sold by mlms who use scientific name dropping and hype claims to hustle their products. Keep in mind many scientests
involved with antioxidants suggest that human beings only require 5,000 to 6,000 ORAC worth of antioxidants per day. Whole and colorful fruits, veggies, legumes, nuts, and grains supply more than enough. Caps and pills do not supply a wide variety of nutrients and fiber that whole foods do. Your gums and teeth require exercise.

[Maqui Berry Guy]

This is my first post. I own a company that consolidates maqui berry from the Chilean Patagonia regions and converts it to freeze dried powder. We opted for the Brunswick Labs "Total ORAC" certification which tests against the top 5 free radicals. I have made it available on my website. I hope to pas along everything we find out about the maqui berry as well as learn from others here.

http://www.patagoniamaqui.com/faqmaqui- ... rac-certs/

* I have some great stories thus far about the nutraceutical industry as a whole. I will share them over time when appropriate. Good to be here.

[alfonthemove]

There is One Sure Way to know if Brunswick Labs has indeed done the certification. If the product has the Brunswick Logo, With ORAC Certified on the label, then you know it is True. One reason many companies toute their ORAC from Brunswick and do not have the label is they only do an initial test for score, but do not do for each batch they bring to market. I have found one such product that has their logo certified ORAC on the label on a new product called Viva Elite. From 19 superfood sources, this is the Premium product on the market today. This company Does have Brunswick do each batch. The ORAC is 13,633 per ounce. One serving is 2.5 ounces, making the total ORAC per serving 34,082.5

To read more about this product www.vivaelite.com/lnb

My contact info on the site.

[SGM123]

Alfonseonthemove,

Interesting. A number of supplement companies put Brunswick logos on their bottle and claim certification from Brunswick when none were performed. Further Brunswick does not align itself
with any company or promote any company so any logoing is highly questionable. In Brunswick's own words: "Occasionally, customers will send samples from their competitors to be analyzed, so they own this data and have control of how it is used. Beyond our normal "Certificate of Analysis", which is our means of reporting official results to our customers, we have at a customer's request, put the results in the form of a letter. We now believe that we used poor judgement in doing this, as Brunswick Laboratories is being used to "promote products", and Brunswick unequivocally does not align itself with any products or companies producing products." http://brunswicklabs.com/apology_letter.shtml

A word of caution about "proprietary blends":

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5290&p=8801#p8801

Of course questions always arise about MLMs and how much MORE consumers have to pay for their "products" let alone mlm's overall reputation for people not making any money from their mlm efforts.

Our required ORAC values can easily be obtained from whole fruits, veggies, grains, nuts, legumes, and so forth and we get the needed fiber,trace minerals and our teeth get a workout. Heaven forbid we ingest guarana and other "over amping" energy substances in our "proprietary blend". Wouldn't want to be frazzled and crash after a bout with antioxidants.

As for taking 34,000 ORAC in a dose--what a waste of money and a workout for you kidneys. According to Dr. Ronald Prior of the US Department of Agriculture Research Service at Tufts University, Boston, Massachusetts, "a significant increase in antioxidants of 15 to 20 percent is possible by increasing consumption of fruits and vegetables, particularly those high in ORAC value." However, in order to have a significant impact on plasma and tissue antioxidant capacity one can only meaningfully increase one's daily intake by 3,000 to 5,000 ORAC units. Any greater amount is probably redundant. That is because the antioxidant capacity of the blood is tightly regulated, says Dr. Prior. Thus there is an upper limit to the benefit that can be derived from antioxidants. Taking in 25,000 ORAC units at one time (as reputedly occurs with mangosteen) would be no more beneficial than taking in a fifth of that amount: the excess is simply excreted by the kidneys."